One of the greatest lessons I learned in China, is the ability to "forget". Forget what you know is correct, if you want to learn our ways. If you want to learn another person's ways, you have to let go of your current ways
Thanks to this, I've found that moving someone's torso to a vertical position, immediately after the bar passes the knee has worked tremendously well. And of course this completely contradicts the "stay over the bar" cue, but try it out. You might just enjoy it
Now I'm still helping out with technical tips, but I really need the guys to put the proper instructions. "Need your help Kirksman, if you miss this I'll tag you again tomorrow". The girls, no problem. They read instructions. It's us men
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